What does a grace-paced life look like? How do we let Jesus set the pace in leadership? Alan Fadling in “An Unhurried Leader: The Lasting Fruit of Daily Influence” seeks to help us understand.

Join Kevin today as he talks to Alan about his book and topics like leadership, parenting, and grace. We have many roles and relationships: spiritual mentor, pastor, executive director, parent, professor, and God is present in all of this. Listen to an episode full of wisdom and grace.

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Podcast Transcription

Welcome back to following to lead everybody with Kevin E, I’m still Kevin E, and I’m glad you joined us back again this week. As always, we drop new episodes every Monday. In case you didn’t know that, you can check back in each week or if you like what you’re hearing, you want to be part of this community. I encourage you to click subscribe. You know, I say every week that my hope is inspire people to follow Jesus in such a way that it changes the way that we live, in the way that we lead both at work and at home.

And so this podcast, I like talking to people that I’m learning from. I like calling authors that books that I’ve read that I really love what they had to say and want to kind of dig in a little bit deeper with them. I love this. This season on the podcast, I’ll be talking to parents that I greatly respect to asking them questions. I’m going to be interviewing my wife here soon and interact with her about how we parent. I’m going to be talking about vision later on this season and what it means as leaders that we cast vision, what that looks like.

And so I hope you’ll continue to join us here each week. Hey, a few things to No one. You know, if I mentioned this last week or the past couple of weeks, but here, beginning the second season on this podcast, if you’re interested in watching it now, you can actually watch the video version of it on YouTube. So feel free to look at following the lead on YouTube and you’ll catch our these podcast there. I’m excited about the number of people that are reaching out to me now that are really interested in this topic about, man, what does it look like for God to really transform all that I am, that I don’t just become a churchgoer or kind of a moral person, but the God really impacts everything about me.

Today’s episode I recorded a few days ago, I recently read a book called The Unhurried Leader. The subtitle is The Lasting Fruit of Daily Influence. And this was one of those types of books. You know, I’m not really drawn to read, you know, the unhurried leader. Why would I really read that? But I had heard great things about it. I started looking through it and I just kept underlining and marking pages and underlining and marking pages.

This book, if you lead anybody, whether it be your family or in the marketplace of some sort, this book is one of those books that man, it just drips of grace. And I really love that about it. It just is. I read it. I was just so inspired, like, yes, Lord. Like, it’s, you know, so often how I operate as a leader is so contradictory to what God wants of me as a leader.

And I was like, this is a great reminder that your yoke is easy and that I’m called to rest in you and then to walk from that in the marketplace. And so I reached out to the author and guy named Alan Paddling, and I just love this guy. I love my time and I’m doing this interview. And so I encourage you to listen to it. Now it’s Alan paddling as I talk to him at his book, The Unhurried Leader, The Lasting Fruit of Daily Influence.

And I hope it impacts you as it did me and so enjoy.

Well, Allan, hello and thanks for being with me on this podcast. I sure appreciate you taking some time. Thanks, Kevin. It’s good to be able to be with you.

OK, so you have this great book on the unhurried leader. I’ve got it all marked up. I’ve got it sticky, knotted up. I got to tell you, Alan, my assistant seven months ago emailed me a quote from this book and I couldn’t get to the bottom my email inbox. And so it’s been in my inbox because I’m like, I am not going to delete that quote. Finally, two days ago, I took it and I put it in my Evernote because I’m going to quote you someday on this.

And then I as I was looking at your book, I realized it’s actually in your front cover. So let me read this quote. And I want to get you just to start by talking about that. You say Unholy Hurry may make me look busy, but too often it keeps me from actually being fruitful in the ways Jesus wants me to be. Jesus model Grace Paiste leadership to learn from him. We begin not with leading, but with following.

Would you talk about that here?

Yeah, well, it makes me think of a mentor of my mentor of nearly 30 years. And the thing he would always say is leadership is followership. You know, for the Christian leaders, start with following. And that has just become part of my DNA. I like the word Grace Paiste because a lot of leadership that’s modeled, especially in Western or maybe especially North American contexts, it often just seems to be a great deal of busyness. And there’s this well of things I say in an unhurried life is, you know, if you ask somebody how they’re doing and they give you a one word answer, there’s a very good chance that one word will be busy.

And it’s kind of half complete, but it’s half boast. And, you know, it’s like I’m so important to so many people need me. I’m busy.

I’m significant. That’s exactly right. Pi translates in our culture to significance.

Yeah. And I just I’ve come to realize that Jesus shows us and appointed us to go and bear fruit that lasts. Busyness doesn’t usually produce fruit that lasts. The stuff that kept me busy five years ago, I’m probably not thinking much about it right now. That’s right.

So when you write a book, you’ve obviously written a previous book, you started a whole nonprofit ministry. Unhurried living, I think is what it’s called. Yeah, that’s right. When we think specifically about an unhurried leader. Right. So my hope with this podcast is I always say is to inspire people to follow Jesus in a way that it just impacts the way they live. It’s not just Church Hannity. It’s not just I’m a moral person. It’s man.

I’ve got such a vibrant relationship with Christ, which is what you describe in this book, that it changes everything. Why did you think it was important to write a book like this or to start a whole ministry like this? When you think about the concept of unhurried living, tell us what that looks like.

What is it about? Yeah, so one of the things I remember hearing Dallas Willard say once was that there is a difference between busy and hurried. And I found this hopefully sitting so busy that your calendar, all of us have busy seasons, busy days, hurried. That’s your soul. That’s what’s happening in you. That’s what looks like unhealthy driven this or selfish ambition or anxiety or irritability and anger or frustration, all these inner kinds of hurry. And they don’t look very much like Jesus.

The one thing you can fairly safely say is you don’t see Jesus in any kind of hurry in the pages of the gospel. And and so that idea that Jesus is unhurried, that I am a follower of Jesus as a leader, what does that do to my way of life? How do I become unhurried in all of the best ways? Jesus, there’s enough time to pay attention to the person in front of him, enough time to enjoy the presence of his father, no matter how busy things get, enough discernment and time to slow down and see temptation when it’s coming.

These are some of the ideas that I just felt were so key for leaders. Yeah.

You know, this is one of those you know, you talk in your book about, you know, Paul saying, hey, look, let me boast of my weakness. You know, I mean, when I’m reading your book, I’m just like, this is so not me, but I so want it to be me. You know, I I’m one of those people that I’m I’m very driven. I love accomplishment. I love moving things forward.

I love, you know, I’m the type person my wife and I sit down on a Saturday morning on Twitter. All the things we need to do today. I mean, and we get motivated. But then but then we’re exhausted at times and we don’t experience rest at the very soul of who we are. I was thinking about, you know, your book earlier and you had quoted, you know, your book kind of Drips of Dallas Willard.

So even hearing you talk about something like that doesn’t surprise me because it just has that season and that flavor of grace, as you describe it. Here we are, we just got out of 20, you know, come February, March, we all got kind of kicked out of our offices and sent home. And and really a lot of the stuff of busyness, of life really dropped off for a lot of people. You I think you quoted John Ortberg, if I remember correctly in the book about you have to be like superintends a lot turning things off or something like that.

You send the book.

But I got to I have talked to quite a few people that although their business has dropped, they wouldn’t say there’s been a direct correlation of intimacy with Jesus has risen. What would you say to people like that where they go? You know what? And look, in the pandemic, I’m unable to do anything for months, but I don’t sense any greater intimacy with Jesus. What advice would you give people in that situation?

Well, you know, so, yeah, this year in which we have found ourselves, I think has been a kind of unexpected, unhurried. Yeah. None of us asked for it, you know. But somehow in the middle of March last year, everything changed for us. I my schedule my wife’s schedule totally changed. But just because I have more time in one way doesn’t mean I’m going to use that time in ways that might, for example, help deepen my roots.

And I think one of the things that really helps cultivate relationship is opening up space and time to be receptive to God. And again, sometimes as leaders were more focused on our activity than we are on our receptivity, I think followership requires a kind of receptivity. Receive me, Jesus says, you know, as many as received him. There’s this receptivity mode. That’s how I think we deepen our roots of relationship. And then I think all kinds of good work grows out of that as a fruit.

So, you know, I think you’re totally right. Receiving, you know, laying down achievement and picking up receiving. There’s an overflow that happens out of that that, you know, makes great impact. I’m assuming with the ministry like yours, you probably work with a lot of type A people, both parents, leaders that are just wanting to just make it happen, you know, accomplish great things. When you think about your time spent with people like that, are there certain things you come back to that you go, hey, look, I really want to emphasize a few different things to you to really allow you to experience a grace paced lifestyle or there a few different things maybe you suggest to people like that.

So, yeah, there are probably quite a few. One big idea that I’ve really taken to heart and I really lean into is I think in the rhythm of the scriptures, the way that work and rest relate, for example, is that rest comes first and then work grows out of rest. In our culture, it’s really the other way around. You know, our day begins when the alarm clock goes off and we jump right into work. Work comes first in the way we think of a day in the way a Jewish person would have thought of a day.

It was evening and morning. The day begins with rest, not work half a day of rest. Eugene Peterson sort of plays with this and some of his writings. He says, you know, halfway into the day we wake up into work. That’s already happening, but God has already been involved in and I just join work already in progress. That is a way in which Grace informs and guides and then it energizes the work I do. I’m not getting something going.

I’m joining something already going that’s a different orientation to the other. And maybe the image I just briefly share is Jesus talks about taking his yoke. Well, in my mind in the past, there were times that I thought Jesus was handing me this big, heavy yoke and I carried it off and did something with it. I think when he says, take my OK, he’s in the OK and there’s a space for me, we’re doing this together.

So I think leading with God, leading with Christ is a way of slowing me down to his pace. Those are some things that I, I sort of harp on. I sort of echo often.

You know, this is obviously something the gods wanted me to hear loud and clear, because sometime back in the past I was interviewing somebody on this podcast and I’m embarrassed to say I don’t remember who it was, but they mentioned that concept of risk being first and work being second. And I’m like, what do you see that they’re like in the Bible?

I was like, OK, sorry. And then I was interviewing another lady, a long time friend of mine. A woman is great. And I just I started thinking about my SAT’s right where I my work week here at the office, in the ministry that I get to lead, you know, in a sense ended on Friday, Saturday morning. I wake up, I got to mow the grass. I do this like it is and it’s all out of this driven this to get to the end of the day and see this checked off list.

And I asked her, I said. How do I do this differently? She’s why she just mentioned she, you know, something to the effect of it’s probably not doing it differently, but it’s about how you do it or something like that. So what I started doing was I would go to mow the grass and say, Lord, thank you, that I get to join you in taking care of your creation. And it was amazing, Allan, how the whole experience of mowing my grass changed because it was like it was overflowing out of a spirit of gratitude, like I get to be outdoors and I get to hear the birds and I get to mow the grass, which I really enjoy doing.

And at the end of it, I go and I get to see it looking nice. There’s something about that that’s I would call it grace paced, as you’re describing it. Right.

And so that’s one of the things I’m thinking now of line from Dallas. You know what? If you were to ask him what would a great space life look like, I bet she’d say something like this. It probably look very much like the life you already have. It would just be different on the inside. Wow. So when I say unhurried, some leaders, I can tell they’re getting really nervous. Like, I’m going to urge them to do half of what they’re currently doing and, you know, get less done.

Now, you might decide you’re doing too much. That’s fine. That’s not actually what I’m talking about. What I’m talking about is who you are as you do what you do. And so, for example, on a Sabbath like day, my big question for leader is, how do you rest? Work sometimes for busy leaders is easier than resting, resting is sometimes really hard to do. You’re exactly right.

I mean, last year I was looking to take a sabbatical and I had taken a sabbatical 10 years prior. And I remember thinking, you know what? I’m the type person I go on a sabbatical in my myself and my wife. I both make a long list of projects. I’m going to build this at the house and and do this and do that. We’ll go on a quick vacation and then six or eight weeks later, I want to come back and nothing will be different than when I left.

You know, there won’t be any sense of soul, rest of depressed. They’ll just be look what I accomplished over here while I was gone from accomplishing over here. And it hit me like that’s not what a sabbatical is probably supposed to be like. You open up. I’m going to read this quote again at the beginning of your book. I like to aim for both parents and leaders of businesses, non-profits, ministries that listen in this podcast, you said, what if parents found the roots of their Lifeson deep into the infinitely vast love of their Heavenly Father, so much so that their parenting was simply the expression of that abundant divine love would of men and women in business found in God, inspiration for a creative, powerful and unselfish vision of their work.

What a profound impact that would have on their fellow workers and clients. Would you talk about that a little bit as well of what would it look like, as you describe, you know, having roots that run deep in Jesus? If we have parents listening to this right now, our business leaders, you know, what does it look like to now? I guess not to do that, but to be that? I mean, what what would you say to them?

Right. So I think underneath that is, at least for some, the assumption that, you know, following Jesus is my religious life. But then there’s my business life, my family life. And, you know, there’s this disintegration thing that can happen. It’s not intentional, but it can happen. What I want to say to someone is actually you could have no better model as a mother or father than God seeing in the face of Jesus. You could learn more from Jesus about parenting than from any other book you might read.

From Jesus, Jesus, his spirit, the way he treats people, his manner, his tone, he’s an absolute genius at caring for people when it comes to business. I actually think that following Jesus would make you a better business person, not just a nicer one or a more inspirational one or more moral and honest one, but literally a better business person. Because you have wisdom, you have perspective, you have vision. These are all fruits of communion with God.

And so I actually think that, you know, faith, trusting, growing my roots deeper in relationship with Jesus makes me the kind of person who can be prosperous, who can do well, who can live fruitfully in a lot of different ways, not just in a religious way only.

Hey, everybody, it’s Julie Konar, podcast producer. Thanks so much for listening to Following to lead with Kevin E. I hope you’re really enjoying what you’re hearing with Kevin and Dr. Fadhli. And I read Dr. Paddlings book The Unhurried Leader last summer and was absolutely transformative in my life. I hope you’ll pick it up after you listen to this podcast. Hey, if you are enjoying what you’re hearing or have any questions, please feel free to contact us.

We’d love to hear from you. Our email is Kevin at the Mentoring Alliance. Dotcom, as always, if you want to know more about what we do here at the Mentoring Alliance, check out our website, the Mentoring Alliance. Dotcom, we’d love to have you come check out what we do things again for listening. Let’s get back to the podcast with Kevin and Dr. Alan Fettling. You know, when you talk about the word because my mind is balance, is that there’s probably a lot of people like me at times that just live life out of balance.

You just get so driven and accomplishments like a drug that you get addicted to. Like, man, look what I just did. Look what just happened, as opposed to living a life of balance where you begin with rest and then you venture out into work, you know, later to achieve things at times in the book there are one of things I notice about you. We both went to Fuller Seminary through different things, which I didn’t realize about, which is really cool to see you kind of settle in on Ezekiel forty seven for a chapter or so this book.

And I feel like you even if you don’t, you know, you’re kind of pointing back to it other sections of your book as well. Would you talk to the listeners here just about what can we learn from that passage in Ezekiel 47 to you know, you and I have been at the Dead Sea. We’ve seen the way it looks. It’s just stagnant and nothingness. It’s dead, and yet it’s is dead. And then you really pull on this picture in Ezekiel 47, which you talk about that as well for a minute.

Yeah, it’s an amazing chapter. I remember the first time it really kind of jumped out at me maybe 15 years ago. And to me, it became this metaphor for a way of living that begins with God. Now, that doesn’t sound like any big surprise to anyone listening. But what I love about this metaphor, this vision really that is Akeel has is that it begins at the temple. Well, for a Jewish person, the temple, that’s where God is.

That’s where you go to meet with God. That’s the place of prayer. That’s the place of offering. That’s the God place. The vision begins at the temple and then from the temple. The vision says a trickle, a small little trickle of water begins. And, you know, now we’re in cubits, you know, a thousand cubits here, a thousand cubits there. It’s it’s ankle deep. It’s knee deep. It’s waist deep. It’s an impassable river.

I mean, like almost like literally living water, multiplying as it goes. And then it says there’s a line in there, says wherever the river flows, everything will live. That to me is an amazing phrase. Now, what’s interesting about that, passages when Jesus in John Seven stands up on the last great day of a festival and he says, is anyone thirsty or that they should come to me, those who believe in me, those who trust me, it will be as though rivers of living water flow from within them.

At least some of the commentaries think that is 047 47 is in the back of Jesus mind when he offers that metaphor. It’s what I love about it is this. When we begin with God, not just like opening prayer, begin with God, but really root ourselves well in communion with God, then our lives become that place from which maybe just a trickle, but living water begins to flow from us and something supernatural begins to happen in what we do and how we interact with people.

Something Kingdome like happens, and wherever that river flows, everything will live. It’s not about me, but it’s about what’s coming through me from God. So I love the image. When I teach that passage to leaders, I just say always remember wherever you are, if you’re in the wilderness like this last year has felt or maybe you’re even standing on the shore of a dead sea in your own life or in the community in which you live or whatever it is always.

Remember, there is a river and it begins at the temple. And to me that’s just this beautiful metaphor for how to approach the dry and dead places that I encounter in my own leadership.

You know, what I love about that picture, too, is you’re pointing out, you know, there are seasons of my life where, you know, maybe God’s using me. Maybe maybe he’s not. Maybe he’s just impacting people through me. Maybe he’s not. But I think the freedom and the grace is you’re talking about that passages. It begins with a trickle. You know, the maybe maybe the weather seasons where I go, you know what?

You know, at least there’s a trickle. There’s something happening. There’s something overflowing out of me. And other times I want to go, wow, God, look at what you’re doing. There’s like this impassable river in front of me of just you flowing through. You know, you usually I guess I call it a metaphor earlier in the book that I never thought about that I’m going to start changing a metaphor that I would use. You know, I would normally say, hey, look, I’m a conduit of God’s grace, right?

It just flows right through me. You talk about the difference. We have a reservoir or maybe a canal, I think was is what you do economized it with. Explain that, because it was a really great point that I loved that started off with being filled and then something. What do you mean between the difference in a reservoir? In a canal.

Yeah, that that comes from a quotation from Bernard of Clairvaux, you know, the Cistercian abbot from nine hundred years. The or whatever it was, and I love it because of this, the thing about a conduit is once the water is through, it’s gone. Now it’s gone somewhere, that’s the good part of it, a reservoir gives what it gives without cost to itself, without a sense of loss. So this is where I get the idea or I highlight the idea of we lead from overflow, not from scarcity.

We don’t hand people our last three drops. And so now we’re dry instead. Maybe to use another biblical passage in Psalm 23, David talks about a cup and the cup overflows. Yeah, I love that. What I’ve come to think and this comes again from one of my mentors, he said, you know, your life is a cup. God is always pouring. Ministry is the overflow, you minister from fullness. But sometimes we sort of take our cup and dump it on every issue and every problem and every project.

And by the end, you know, we’ve got this empty cup in our hands and our lives can become that’s the burnout problem that so many are facing. It’s because they haven’t learned how to lead from fullness, from abundance, from a reservoir, rather than merely as a conduit.

I love it. A friend of mine wrote a children’s book where he said, you know, we were all created to live in a garden where we just received the cup. And all we’re doing is receiving. But in a sense, in the garden, Adam and Eve turned that cup upside down. They said, no thanks, we’re going to do it our own way. And so and a lot of us live independently like that. When I saw you using that picture of the reservoir, which jumped out to me, I think it’s Caution’s, too, that says so then just as you receive Christ, Jesus is Lord, continue to live in him, rooted in, built up, and then strengthen the faith as you were taught and overflowing with thankfulness.

It was like the reminder of, you know, by grace, through faith. I received him landlord let me live on that fullness to where I can just overflow. Our family mission statement says that we want to walk with God intimately and love others generously and everything in this book about being unhurried to me. I got to tell you partly why I loved it. It’s just it’s so seasoned with grace that, you know, I want to point people towards things like this because I didn’t walk away from a book like this going.

I got to do more. I got to do better. I’m going to do this. It’s like, Lord, thank you for reminding me through Alan that I just want to receive from you and overflow into others. Is there anything else you might say about that or any other thoughts that come to your mind as you think about that?

Yeah, so there’s actually a passage that comes to mind. You know, Paul, in First Corinthians 15, that’s the big resurrection chapter, big, long chapter. But early on, he talks about himself and he describes himself as the least of the apostles, you know, because of his background, because of his history. But out of that, he says this. But by the grace of God, I am what I am. And his grace toward me was not in vain.

On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them. But it wasn’t me. It was the grace of God that was with me. The thing I want to say is that grace strengthens us for the best possible work. Grace is a far better fuel than driven. This is, you know, kindness will lead us to repentance and pride will not do that. And so in the kingdom leading in the spirit of Jesus looks gracious and peaceful and gentle and humble.

It just does, because that’s the nature. That’s the atmosphere of the kingdom. And as we breathe that atmosphere, that’s what we then exhale, in a sense, extend the metaphor in what we do and how we treat people and and all of that. That’s rich.

I want to ask you one last thing here before I begin to wrap up here. You have a whole chapter that just draws my attention because the title, How Grace Empowers Leadership. And I’m like, oh, man, I got to learn from this chapter. And you start in one of the subsections. The subsection title is Becoming Strong in Grace. And you talk about Paul’s imitation that Timothy was the second Timothy to verse one. You then my son, be strong.

And the grace that is in Christ Jesus, I’d never noticed that. Be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. Would you talk about that? What do you mean by becoming strong and grace?

So, you know, I remember hearing that phrase as a young Christian and I guess I imagined whatever that meant, it would maybe I would read more books on Grace or I would do a study, you know, in the Bible. That’s right. You know, I would have more grace, you know, data in my brain cells or something. Yeah. I think the way you grow strong in grace is by being a person who knows just how many ways you are desperately in need of grace.

Yeah, I think you grow strong and grace when you realize everything in your life requires. A generous presence of God, there are some things you can do on your own. You don’t need any help in that sense. Grace is just like the spare tire in your trunk. You’re glad you have it, but you don’t need it too often. Whereas, no, grace is the engine. Grace is actually what enables you to be who you are and to do what you do.

It’s what bears the good fruit of your life should it be strong. And grace is to, in every facet of your life, realize, oh, I’m not going to be able to be the parent I want to be, if not for the grace of God, I’ll never be able to do what God’s called me to do in my work, if not for the grace of God. If God’s grace is not with me strengthening me, it will not be what he’s called it to be.

That to me, is what growing strong. And the thing is this mostly what’s helped me grow strong and grace are challenging times and difficulties and hardships. James calls them trials of many kinds because they pressed me to my places of surrender. They pressed me to places of waking up to my need. And so they’re hard or painful. They’re difficult, but they are the means by which I become the person who lives more abundantly in grace, more strength and in grace, more whole in grace.

So that’s how I sort of begun to envision this be strong in the grace that is in our Lord Jesus Christ.

You know, I’ve been very candid over the last, you know, however many podcast recordings I’ve done over the past seven months or so of, you know, life and what what life’s been throwing at me and my family. And I’m sure there are a lot of parents listening or leaders listening that are in tough situations, as I’m sure many times I’ve been walking through cancer for the past seven months in treatment. Wow. And it’s been no fun. It’s been you know, you feel terrible at days.

And Alan, what I appreciate about your heart and your writing is, is you’ve I wouldn’t say you’ve pushed me towards Jesus. You’ve invited me towards Jesus. And, you know, I interviewed my friend Dr. Tim Kimmell here recently and he wrote Grace based Parenting. And you talk about Grace Paiste leadership or Grace Pace living even. And I’m just like I just want to surround myself with people at times that can speak grace in the ME because it’s just like it’s like water to a dying plant.

It’s just rich. And so thanks for being somebody who is speaking Grace in my life right now. I want to give you one last. You know, I want to maybe send it to you here one last time. Is there is you think about an unhurried leader. I know we only have a short amount of time on a podcast, even unpack it. I want to invite people to go read it because it really is a good book. Is there any other thoughts you might point?

You know, our listeners tours when you think about unheard leader that maybe I haven’t asked you about that you go, hey, don’t forget this, Kevin. Anything else you say to any of this? So I think what I would say is that the single practice that has been most critical for me and there’ve been a number of them, so I’m always I’m always in danger when I say the secret is that’s not what I’m trying to communicate. But as a leader, I will fill my calendar with activities.

What has been absolutely critical is to be purposeful about filling my calendar with spaces, spaces to be with God, spaces to be with important people in my life. So, for example, as you and I are talking tomorrow morning in my calendar, is a half a day that just says time with God to half a day. It’ll be at our local lake. Our weather’s cooperative this week Will I’ll be able to sit outside and it’s just time to be with God.

It might be a little bit in scripture. It might just be looking at the lake and admiring God’s creativity, but enjoy God, enjoy God, make space for that. It’s good news that we’re proclaiming. So let him be good news for you. You know, as a leader, you will have a much easier time proclaiming it as good news. If you’re enjoying it. That’s good news. Wow.

You know, in the book you talk about you grab your bike, you grab some change of clothes, you grab some bag and you go down to like a train station. And I don’t know what that’s like. Are you going to a train station? I went and got a hotel or something like that. Like who does that? I don’t even know how I would do that. We don’t even go. That must be a California thing. Probably a California thing.

Yeah, fair enough. Here in East Texas, I’m not sure where I end up and things like that. So, you know, your book is great. Again, it’s called An Unhurried Leader The Lasting Fruit of Daily Influence. Tell us about the ministry you lead real quick. Is there anything maybe you also you’d point people to that you’re up to these days?

Yeah, well, maybe at the center if you were to simply go to our website, unhurried living dotcom, what you’d see on the front. Is called our unhurried community. My wife and I both lead a virtual community of leaders really from all over the world and it’s basically a monthly live zoom conversation. I am currently each month going through an unhurried life. One chapter each time my wife and with a group of women is going through our book. What does Your Soul Love, which is eight questions that reveal God’s work in you?

It’s really a book about transformation. So what I feel is, especially in this year, in which we found ourselves having virtual resources like that opportunity to connect with other Like-Minded leaders. So I would just encourage your listeners to consider going to our home page and exploring that, seeing if that might be helpful for them as a way of taking some next steps and being a part of a community of leaders who are trying to do the same. That’s great.

Well, I’m so glad to connect with you today, and I appreciate you being here and taking some time. Hey, everybody else, thanks for joining us, following to lead today. Again, as you always hear me say, my hope today is that you’ve been inspired to follow Jesus in such a way that it just changes the way that you live and the way that you lead both at work, at home. If you enjoy hearing content like this, please subscribe share in social media to share with other people.

I would love to continue to grow a community of people that are really wanting to follow Jesus to make a generous impact while here on this earth. And so have a great day. I look forward to seeing you next time.